DUST Search - Feedback Please: Assault Role?

Buster Friently wrote:

Hagintora wrote:

Buster Friently wrote:

Hagintora wrote:

I made this suggestion on another thread, but I'll put it here too.

Switch the High/Low slot count of the Logi's and Assaults, and change PG/CPU accordingly. This would keep Logi's combat effective without having them outshine the Assaults. This would also allow Assaults to be more versatile with their fittings, allowing them to tank more if they so choose, or allowing them to utilize other mods without having to sacrifice their survivablity.

I think that this should also be combined with option number 2, by allowing them to carry one more grenade.

As a sidenote: How's that movement/agility chart coming? I'm really looking forward to applying it on my Speed thread.

Sure, just as soon as there's a real logistics role in Dust.

Until then, this just sounds like "Waah, Assault isn't better than everything else, please balance it so that it is."

Well Logi's will still keep their equipment slots, which is kind of their role isn't it? What would you consider to be a "real logistics role"? Assaults haven't been better at anything for a long time, while Logi's continue to dominate (player count wise).

Why is it a bad thing if Assault Suits have more High/Low Slots than Logi's? Why do Logi's need those slots more than Assaults? Would it better if Assaults lost their equipment slot?

God I'm tired so I'm gonna stop the rambling here, but I just don't see how changing the slot layout is going to be anything but beneficial to both roles.

See, that's the problem. NO, equipment slots isn't a role.

There's only one role in Dust right now, and it's pure combat. That's because there is nothing else to do. So, all of the suits in Dust are basically combat suits with slightly different flavors. This is why the arguments about "assault should be better at combat than logistics" really just boils down to "assaults should be better" because there really are no other roles.

For an example of what a real role might mean, see:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Ships:Cruisers:Advanced_Cruisers:Logistics

or:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Logistics_piloting

For examples.


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Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2137	Posted - 2014.03.06 14:26:00 - [1] - Quote So CCP has said that they are likely going to do a little tuning to logi and assault suits following 1.8. One problem as it exists right now is that the community pretty much just wants to think in terms of JUST tanking and DPS. So this pretty much means you have scouts at one end of the slayer spectrum, with assaults in the middle and logis at the end. Do you want something that is more nimble, you might as well brick tank a scout (in 1.8). Do you want something more tanky? You might as well brick tank a logi because the utility that you gain is nearly always worth the speed you lose (scanning/hacking/equipment/shield delay). So CCP has to figure out what to do with this problem in order to make assaults have a clear and well defined role. So question 1) What do you think should be the clear and unmistakable role of assaults? please give some feeback on this question! - I think what HAS to be done is that we need to be okay with logistics suits being a SIGNIFICANTLY less powerful slayer compared to the assault. One way of doing this is making them less able to avoid damage. They already have lower stamina and regen then assaults. The one way you could make brick logis less effective is to also make their strafing significantly slower so that they wouldn't be good at avoiding rifle fire as much. Around a 10%-15% slower strafe speed would make brick logis much less effective at gun battles.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2137	Posted - 2014.03.06 15:55:00 - [2] - Quote Hagintora wrote: I made this suggestion on another thread, but I'll put it here too. Switch the High/Low slot count of the Logi's and Assaults, and change PG/CPU accordingly. This would keep Logi's combat effective without having them outshine the Assaults. This would also allow Assaults to be more versatile with their fittings, allowing them to tank more if they so choose, or allowing them to utilize other mods without having to sacrifice their survivablity. I think that this should also be combined with option number 2, by allowing them to carry one more grenade. As a sidenote: How's that movement/agility chart coming? I'm really looking forward to applying it on my Speed thread. I put it here.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2138	Posted - 2014.03.06 16:09:00 - [3] - Quote derp
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2138	Posted - 2014.03.06 17:13:00 - [4] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Hagintora wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Hagintora wrote: I made this suggestion on another thread, but I'll put it here too. Switch the High/Low slot count of the Logi's and Assaults, and change PG/CPU accordingly. This would keep Logi's combat effective without having them outshine the Assaults. This would also allow Assaults to be more versatile with their fittings, allowing them to tank more if they so choose, or allowing them to utilize other mods without having to sacrifice their survivablity. I think that this should also be combined with option number 2, by allowing them to carry one more grenade. As a sidenote: How's that movement/agility chart coming? I'm really looking forward to applying it on my Speed thread. Sure, just as soon as there's a real logistics role in Dust. Until then, this just sounds like "Waah, Assault isn't better than everything else, please balance it so that it is." Well Logi's will still keep their equipment slots, which is kind of their role isn't it? What would you consider to be a "real logistics role"? Assaults haven't been better at anything for a long time, while Logi's continue to dominate (player count wise). Why is it a bad thing if Assault Suits have more High/Low Slots than Logi's? Why do Logi's need those slots more than Assaults? Would it better if Assaults lost their equipment slot? God I'm tired so I'm gonna stop the rambling here, but I just don't see how changing the slot layout is going to be anything but beneficial to both roles. See, that's the problem. NO, equipment slots isn't a role. There's only one role in Dust right now, and it's pure combat. That's because there is nothing else to do. So, all of the suits in Dust are basically combat suits with slightly different flavors. This is why the arguments about "assault should be better at combat than logistics" really just boils down to "assaults should be better" because there really are no other roles. For an example of what a real role might mean, see: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Ships:Cruisers:Advanced_Cruisers:Logistics or: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Logistics_piloting For examples. I think this is a dumb perspective thing. In skirmish/PC all that really matters is hacking points. Your core strategy is hack more points for longer than the other team. To the extent you can do that faster/better than the other team without losing your clones means you will win. Just because you are the best at killing doesn't mean you will always win at skirmish. In a 5 point map, at best your strategy would be "hold 3 points for the majority of the game" That means you would have 5 players at 2 objectives and 6 at a third. The problem becomes a numbers game then. When you limit the other team to two objectives and you turn defensive, they can easily outnumber you at any single objective. That's where uplinks, stamina, scanning, preparedness, coordination, orbital strikes, vehicle mobility and response etc all come in. Just isolating gameplay to 'kill or be killed' is really narrow minded.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2147	Posted - 2014.03.06 18:11:00 - [5] - Quote Luk Manag wrote: Grant the Assault class a few perks related to revivability. Grant bonus shields and armor when revived. Make the Assault class harder to 'put-down' - we will always be revivable, so we'll jump right back into the line of fire. We'll fill the Assault role with fewer suit losses. I really like this idea. +20% shield refill on revive per level.